(NewsNation) — NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo and commentator Tucker Carlson connected for a wide-ranging conversation in Carlson’s first national television appearance since leaving Fox News Channel.
Despite Carlson and Cuomo being critical of each other in the past, both were let go from cable news networks in the past few years — Carlson from Fox and Cuomo from CNN. They also have the same lawyer, Cuomo said, who encouraged them to “bridge the gap and talk to each other for personal reasons.”
“I do believe that one of the lessons I’ve learned is you have to think about how other people are being affected by situations,” Cuomo told Carlson, reflecting on the dehumanizing nature of media discourse.
“It does make you kind of wonder — maybe there are forces trying to prevent those conversations,” Carlson said, reciprocating the sentiment and acknowledging the importance of engaging with those one disagrees with.
“We are not supposed to be doing this. I am doing something bad right now,” Cuomo said of the conversation. “I am giving Tucker Carlson a platform. … And that’s the end of the analysis. But look where it’s gotten us. Nobody talks to each other anymore. Everything is about silos and sides.”
Cuomo’s departure from CNN came after he was accused of helping his brother, former New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, when the then-governor was accused of sexual harassment.
Carlson said Cuomo’s prioritizing family resonated with him, emphasizing the importance of placing family above other obligations.
“My take on it from a distance, knowing neither you nor your brother, was, ‘You gotta stick with your brother.’ It’s your brother. And that obligation supersedes all others because that’s your family,” Carlson told Cuomo.
Cuomo admitted to feeling on shaky ground after his departure, citing family support as a driving force behind his return to the public sphere.
“I had a big-shot media person say to me, in an interview on their platform, ‘I would not have helped my brother, not if it would have conflicted with my ethical obligations as a journalist,'” Cuomo explained. “First of all, it didn’t. Because I didn’t cover my brother’s situation on my show, I’ve never had the audience give me a hard time until they started hearing things in the media that didn’t square with what they had thought.”
In contrast, Cuomo described Carlson’s demeanor following his departure from Fox News as “ebullient.”
Carlson, once the most popular figure on Fox News, was let go in the wake of Dominion Voting Systems settling its defamation lawsuit with the news outlet. He had initially replaced Greta Van Susteren in Fox’s prime-time lineup with his show “Tucker Carlson Tonight” in 2016.
“You were laughing. And you were, ‘Yeah. Well, let me tell you, it was a favor to me. And this is going to be okay, I’m going to be fine. This is a weird world. And now I know things I didn’t know before,'” Cuomo said. He noted Carlson displayed resilience, laughter and an optimistic outlook.
Carlson shared his philosophical evolution, expressing a newfound desire for authenticity and a rejection of confrontational media tactics.
Carlson said his initial shock lasted for just three minutes. He indicated that he wasn’t consumed by anger or resentment, instead seeing his departure as part of his life’s trajectory.
“I knew that they disagreed with me on a bunch of big topics. And to their great credit, they never tried to change my view on those topics, but you aren’t fully free if you work for someone else,” Carlson said.
Carlson viewed the event through a lens of destiny, suggesting that he felt a sense of inevitability about the outcome. He said he quickly embraced the newfound freedom and an opportunity for personal growth.
“I also had this kind of supernatural sense [that] everything’s gonna be fine. And that in the end, you know, you die anyway. So what are you afraid of exactly,” Carlson said. “It’s good to be fired because it brings you low and you don’t become the overbearing a–hole that every TV person is on some level.”
“I really felt that it was destiny, as I feel that most things are. I think there is a plan,” Carlson said.
Cuomo praised Carlson for being tougher than he is and for his resilience in coming back to the news. He admitted that he still felt like he was on “one knee” and struggling to recover from his dismissal, whereas Carlson appeared more resilient and optimistic about the future.
Cuomo mentioned his wife’s encouragement to move forward, emphasizing the need to continue contributing positively to their lives despite the setback.
“She was like, ‘You gotta get up … we got kids, you got to get up, you got to do something with your life that is helping people and making something of this place,'” Cuomo said, also reflecting on the impact of his departure on his children.
“I put my family through so much that I didn’t understand that I was doing at the time because I had blinders on. I wasn’t thinking that my son was having to deal with stuff. My daughter making up accounts online to defend her uncle killed me,” Cuomo said.
Carlson remarked on his approach to conducting the interview with Putin, highlighting a departure from a confrontational style often expected in such encounters.
“I can go in there and tell Putin, ‘You’re, you’re a monster.’ Okay, what do we get out of that? So I can like prove that I’m a tough guy? I don’t need to prove that,” Carlson said. “If you’re 31, and try to make it in TV … you’re sort of itching for a confrontation to show your skills. … I’m not interested in that. It’s totally pointless.”
Following his departure from CNN, Cuomo said he wanted a shift in his approach to journalism, particularly in how he engages with guests and topics on his show. Cuomo admitted to reevaluating his previous confrontational style, recognizing that he no longer approaches interviews with the same combative attitude.
“I don’t pick fights the way I used to. I believe that my value at the time on CNN was, ‘I’m gonna bring on Tucker Carlson. He’s a smart guy. He’s practiced on what he is. I’m gonna take them apart tonight,'” Cuomo explained.
Cuomo expressed a commitment to authenticity and transparency in his reporting, which he considers the most important elements of good journalism.
“I’m choosing to try to create a better professional mode for myself. But I can’t look at what happened to me and not see injury,” Cuomo said.
Cuomo said he is also working to correct his legacy so that when his kids Google search him, they don’t see, “‘Chris Cuomo, fired by CNN, for lying about what he did to help his brother.’ That is not true, and it cannot stand,” Cuomo said.
Part 2 of “Cuomo & Carlson: The Conversation” airs Tuesday, March 12th, at 8p/7c on NewsNation. Visit Joinnn.com to find your NewsNation channel.