Click here to watch Part 1 of “Cuomo & Carlson: The Conversation”
(NewsNation) — NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo and commentator Tucker Carlson sat down for a wide-ranging conversation in Carlson’s first national television appearance since he left Fox News Channel.
In Part 1, Cuomo and Carlson discussed recent criticism Carlson received for his interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin, COVID-19, family and legacy and the pair’s often rocky history with each other.
Despite Carlson and Cuomo being critical of each other in the past, both were let go from partisan cable networks the past few years — Carlson from Fox and Cuomo by CNN.
In Part 2, they debate January 6, race, immigration, gender roles and why Carlson doesn’t use social media.
January 6 and Political division
While both agreed the events of January 6 were not an “insurrection,” a view Cuomo noted makes some people angry, the death of Ashli Babbitt was a point of contention between the two.
Babbitt was part of a crowd of people pushing against a door and attempting to enter the House of Representatives chamber while officers were evacuating lawmakers.
“Don’t commit violence against women,” Carlson said.
“What was she doing at the time?” Cuomo responded. “She put that officer in fear of his life with 10 other people.”
The officer who shot Babbitt was not charged. After reviewing hours of tape, statements from witnesses, physical evidence and Babbitt’s autopsy, prosecutors determined there was not enough evidence to charge the Capitol Police officer with her death.
Cuomo also accused Carlson of cherry-picking footage from the riot but not without saying that all media networks use select footage to put forward a certain narrative, which he said was symptomatic of the divides in the U.S.
“January 6 was either no big deal, the BLM stuff was worse, or it was an insurrection, everybody there is treason,” Cuomo said of the opposing arguments. “We don’t like what the president does, it’s treason, you know, or he did nothing. Everything is like that.”
Race and Equality
Issues of identity and society, including race and gender roles, have become increasingly divisive in recent years.
That includes replacement theory, a view that Democrats are encouraging immigrants to come to the U.S. to “replace” some in society, a philosophy that has been connected to white supremacism. Carlson pushed back against that characterization.
“I’ve never said white people. I said the current, aka people who are born here, many of them are not white. I don’t know how we get to white people,” Carlson said.
Carlson also called out the media for what he says is attacking people because of their skin color when it comes to coverage of white Americans.
“Because it is substituting a level playing field where there isn’t one, they didn’t have the opportunities early on to build up the tools that a lot of white people did because of what they call now ‘privilege,'” Cuomo argued. “But really, it’s opportunity.”
Carlson argued white people are discriminated against in college admissions and hiring, arguing that discrimination against non-white people ended in 1965.
“How is it that the people in charge are mostly white, but they hate whites?” Cuomo asked.
Carlson admitted he didn’t have a good answer to that but argued that any system that takes race into account winds up benefitting some and harming others based on skin color.
“How do you enable equality? If it’s not going to happen naturally?” Cuomo responded.
“If you could find a way that wouldn’t let some people sit in the front row and others sit in the balcony, then we could talk about it,” Carlson responded.
Gender Roles
In a heated exchange, Carlson and Cuomo discussed family dynamics and the impact of policy on American households.
Carlson ignited the conversation by highlighting what he perceives as the diminishing role of men in society.
“Our job as men is to treat women differently and better than we treat men,” he said, advocating for a chivalrous approach towards women.
Cuomo, however, pushed back, emphasizing the importance of equality and individual choice.
“People don’t make choices for you,” he retorted, countering Carlson’s assertions about gender-specific responsibilities. “Liberation is choice. Is that you get to make your own choices.”
“You have violence against women because you have a cultural preset of victimizing women and putting them in positions that are inferior,” Cuomo said.
The dialogue quickly turned to policy implications, with Carlson criticizing what he sees as government measures discouraging marriage and fertility, particularly among women.
“The inability to raise children on a single income is like the biggest change in American society,” Carlson said.
He accused the Democratic Party of actively working against family formation through policies that incentivize single motherhood and promote anti-fertility measures. “One of them is paying single moms not to be married. Another is constantly promoting anti-fertility measures like abortion and birth control,” Carlson said.
“The one thing I definitely know is that there’s not one man on the planet who knows intuitively what to do with a newborn. There’s a period for the first several months, that if you’re not a woman, you are not comfortable making the right choices for a newborn,” Carlson argued.
Cuomo challenged Carlson’s stance, arguing that policies like family leave and reproductive rights are about providing choices rather than dictating outcomes.
As the conversation concluded, Cuomo pointed out a similarity between them: admiration for their respective wives. Despite their differing viewpoints, both acknowledged the importance of familial relationships and mutual respect within marriages.
“At my house, it’s called the ‘DA,’ the designated a——. That’s my job, baby,” Carlson said.
Why Isn’t Tucker Carlson on Social Media?
Carlson said he is disinterested in monitoring public opinions regarding his work. “I don’t monitor it at all,” he asserted, emphasizing a deliberate disengagement from social media and television viewership.
“I never got the ratings, ever, ever, ever,” he reiterated, dismissing the significance of ratings and online comments. “I wasn’t on the email list. I don’t do email, actually.”
When pressed about his indifference to online reactions, Carlson reaffirmed his focus on personal relationships and faith over virtual commentary.
“I have a big family. … I immediately get worried if I’m doing something that offends them,” he explained.
“Why would I care about some commenter .. .I think it’s really wrong to do that. Why would you give emotional control to a stranger?” Carlson asked.
Cuomo interjected, drawing attention to the prevalent culture of social media scrutiny in the media industry.
“Not caring is, as a practical matter, much more effective,” Carlson remarked.
The conversation delved into the repercussions of succumbing to online pressure, with Carlson likening it to “giving a toddler a handgun,” stressing the dangers of granting undue influence to irrelevant opinions.
“I’m totally for guns, but not in the hands of people who don’t know what to do with guns,” Carlson said. “Keep all of that stuff out and just follow the voice.”